NewsForum

     Go!
Prospero Blocks


 

Chat Center

NewsForum Cafe
Topic: Light Chatter
Weekend Trivia
Topic: Around-the-World Trivia

Board Folders

World News: 98801 msgs in 3513 dscns, Latest: 12:53 AMWorld News
98801 msgs in 3513 dscns
Latest: 12:53 AM
U.S. News / Politics: 370971 msgs in 4549 dscns, Latest: 12:41 AMU.S. News / Po...
370971 msgs in 4549 dscns
Latest: 12:41 AM
Top Stories: 225099 msgs in 5097 dscns, Latest: 12:55 AMTop Stories
225099 msgs in 5097 dscns
Latest: 12:55 AM
War / Terror: 56074 msgs in 1317 dscns, Latest: 12:25 AMWar / Terror
56074 msgs in 1317 dscns
Latest: 12:25 AM
The Time Machine: 3367 msgs in 2278 dscns, Latest: Jul-18 The Time Machine
3367 msgs in 2278 dscns
Latest: Jul-18
Minority Report: 54948 msgs in 3994 dscns, Latest: 10:50 PMMinority Report
54948 msgs in 3994 dscns
Latest: 10:50 PM
Law, Crime, Justice: 49928 msgs in 386 dscns, Latest: Jul-23 Law, Crime, Ju...
49928 msgs in 386 dscns
Latest: Jul-23
Religion: 62231 msgs in 240 dscns, Latest: Jul-24 Religion
62231 msgs in 240 dscns
Latest: Jul-24
NewsForum Café: 10364 msgs in 2396 dscns, Latest: Jul-21 NewsForum Café
10364 msgs in 2396 dscns
Latest: Jul-21
Sci / Health / Environment: 14908 msgs in 1704 dscns, Latest: 11:33 PMSci / Health /...
14908 msgs in 1704 dscns
Latest: 11:33 PM
Entertainment: 5527 msgs in 624 dscns, Latest: Jul-22 Entertainment
5527 msgs in 624 dscns
Latest: Jul-22
Your Money: 594 msgs in 126 dscns, Latest: Jul-17 Your Money
594 msgs in 126 dscns
Latest: Jul-17
(Archived) World News: 84914 msgs in 7130 dscns, Latest: Jun-7 (Archived) Wor...
84914 msgs in 7130 dscns
Latest: Jun-7
Staff Section: 13761 msgs in 2763 dscns, Latest: 3:01 PMStaff Section
13761 msgs in 2763 dscns
Latest: 3:01 PM
Sports !: 1906 msgs in 597 dscns, Latest: Jul-23 Sports !
1906 msgs in 597 dscns
Latest: Jul-23
Ukraine (thru June 2014): 581 msgs in 85 dscns, Latest: Jul-13 Ukraine (thru ...
581 msgs in 85 dscns
Latest: Jul-13
Message Area
Sci / Health / Environment

Enviro. May 14 '05 Sustainable Dev't.

 Subscribe SubscribeGet a printer-friendly version of this discussion Print Discussion 

#1 of 10

     Posted 5/15/05 2:54 AM   
Sue_N
 
From  Sue_N  Posts 3452  Last 12:11 AM
To  All      [Msg # 196359.1 ]    

Who do you think should decide if development should go ahead?

Sustainable Development

"Sustainable Development is development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs" according to Gro Harlem Brundtland in his 1987 book, "Our Common Future". It means that when we need new housing or a new road or a new hydroelectric dam, or even a new golf course, we need to consider their impact on our future and our descendants' future. Some would argue that the needs of the poor should be met before additional requirements of those who are already comfortably off. It recognises that there is a limit to how far our technology and our society can continue meet our present and future needs while we continue to increase our populations and rape and pollute our Earth.

Others would go further. For example, in "Planning for a Sustainable Environment" edited by A Blowers (1993), it gives the following definition: "To promote development that enhances the natural and built environment in ways that are compatible with:

  • The requirement to conserve, even increase overall the stock of natural assets
  • The need to avoid damaging the regenerative capacity of the world's natural ecosystems
  • The need to achieve greater social equality
  • The avoidance of passing additional costs and risks to succeeding generations

So, when a plan is proposed for new housing development to house our burgeoning population, there are a lot of things to be considered. Will it be affordable by the people who need it? Will it be near enough to there work? Will there be enough water, jobs, roads, sewers, schools, hospitals, and many other amenities that people feel they need, not just now, but in the future - for example, when they have families? Will the air be clean, or will the houses be built on contaminated land, such as estates built on naturally occurring asbestos at El Dorado Hills, California.

Once satisfied on those points, it is necessary to conduct an environmental impact assessment, which looks at the impact the development will have not just on the immediate environment, but further afield, and looks into the future. Are there any endangered species on the land? Would felling trees, say, and replacing them with houses cause there to be a lot more run-off from a hill, with consequent erosion and pollution? Where will the water come from, and is there likely to be enough during the lifetime of the estate? Will there be fire risk?

Some of the questions will differ depending on the kind of development. If it is industrial, there may be pollution both during the lifetime of the project but also afterwards. How will nuclear waste be disposed of? How will the chemicals used in mining be kept out of the groundwater? How will the land be left after extraction?

Countries and districts differ as to the breadth and depth of environmental impact assessment required, how much local people are consulted. How broad do you think they should be, or do you believe that a developer has the right to do whatever they want on their own land, and hang the consequences?

There are also differences as to who carries out the environmental impact assessment, and who should pay. Do you think that the developer who will benefit from the project should be the one to measure its impact?

The mechanisms for people to challenge the environmental impact assessment also vary. Do you think that a court of law is the appropriate place for sustainability to be judged?

Recent news stories involving Sustainable Development include:

Calif. Judge Sides With Conservationists

A judge has ruled to block a plan allowing for construction of thousands of homes north of Lake Tahoe.

Please see the following message for the remaining stories.

Sue [sysop in NewsForum, World Issues, All Animals forums]
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#2 of 10

     Posted 5/15/05 2:55 AM   
Sue_N
 
From  Sue_N  Posts 3452  Last 12:11 AM
To  All      [Msg # 196359.2 Message 196359.2 replying to 196359.1 196359.1 ]    

Other Stories

Lincoln Park Zoo Probed After Deaths

Three Francois langurs, a kind of endangered monkey, have died at the Lincoln Park Zoo and a fourth is in quarantine. There has been an unusual number of animal deaths there recently.

British Army Pressured to Replace Hats

Animal rights activists are demanding that the tall bearskin hats worn by guards outside Buckingham House be replaced by artificial fur. They intend to protest when the Queen visits Canada, where the bear skins come from, next week.

Indonesia Finds Bird Flu in Pigs

A strain of bird flu, H5N1, has been found in pigs on the island of Java. The strain has previously crossed from chickens to humans. Pigs are genetically similar to humans and also can be infected with human flu, making a more dangerous, mutant virus more likely.

Invasive Wood-Killing Wasp Found in N.Y.

An Old World woodwasp (Sirex noctilio Fabricius) has been discovered in New York State. It is an invasive species that can devastate pine forests. It is the first time that it has been found in the wild in the U.S. (press release with picture).

Galapagos Volcano Spews Ash and Vapor, Volcano Fernandina erupts in Galapagos Islands

The Cumbre volcano on Fernandina Island, in the Galapagos Islands, has begun to erupt. The species unique to the island are not currently in danger.


Who do you think should decide if development should go ahead?

[Views expressed are those of the author, and do not necessarily reflect those of CompuServe, the Forum or any government, agency or news organization. External Websites are "At Your Own Risk," and no endorsement is expressed or implied.]

Sue [sysop in NewsForum, World Issues, All Animals forums]
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply  Edit this Message Edit  Delete this Message Delete

#3 of 10

     Posted 5/15/05 3:15 AM   
scoff0165
 
From  scoff0165  Posts 193  Last 6/30/06
To  Sue_N      [Msg # 196359.3 Message 196359.3 replying to 196359.1 196359.1 ]    

A quote from the article Gorbachev Calls for Global Water Treaty "Mikhail Gorbachev is pressing world leaders to adopt a treaty guaranteeing clean water and sanitation for their people, a task he says is more daunting than ending the nuclear arms race during the Cold War. Dwindling water supplies and political resistance have hampered efforts to bring fresh water to poor people around the world, the former Soviet leader said Friday in an interview with The Associated Press."

I've heard it said that, in the not-too-distant future, the competition for fresh water resources will be even more fierce than the fight over energy resources and that as much as a third of the fresh water resouces in the U.S. are polluted. That said, it impresses me (and confuses me) to no end that it is Gorbachev leading this effort. Where is our American leadership?

There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance. -Socrates
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#4 of 10

     Posted 5/15/05 6:09 PM   
Sue_N
 
From  Sue_N  Posts 3452  Last 12:11 AM
To  scoff0165      [Msg # 196359.4 Message 196359.4 replying to 196359.3 196359.3 ]    

"I've heard it said that, in the not-too-distant future, the competition for fresh water resources will be even more fierce than the fight over energy resources and that as much as a third of the fresh water resources in the U.S. are polluted. "

"It seems likely to me, too. Shortage of water or pollution of water can cause problems not only within the United States, but also between countries. For example:

Other examples in my Water article. There have been major disagreements between countries over the plans of one to extract water from upstream of another, or where one pollutes the water used by another. A large percentage of poor people around the world already do not have access to clean water.

That said, it impresses me (and confuses me) to no end that it is Gorbachev leading this effort. Where is our American leadership?"

I'm not American, but I do wonder if our modern political systems are any use for producing leaders. So often politicians seem to have to spend a lot of time just getting money to campaign with, and use information supplied by lobbyists, rather than being people who really know the issues and who have strong principles.

[Views expressed are those of the author, and do not necessarily reflect those of CompuServe, the Forum or any government, agency or news organization.]

 

 

 

Sue [sysop in NewsForum, World Issues, All Animals forums]
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#5 of 10

     Posted 5/15/05 9:04 PM   
scoff0165
 
From  scoff0165  Posts 193  Last 6/30/06
To  Sue_N      [Msg # 196359.5 Message 196359.5 replying to 196359.4 196359.4 ]    

Other examples in my Water article. There have been major disagreements between countries over the plans of one to extract water from upstream of another, or where one pollutes the water used by another. A large percentage of poor people around the world already do not have access to clean water.

The poor in this world are at greatest risk in many ways, and this is just another example. Meanwhile suburban America blythely water its lawns, fills its swimming pools and remains utterly ignorant of the plight of hundred of millions of fellow human beings. What a great, compassionate country we are!

I'm not American, but I do wonder if our modern political systems are any use for producing leaders. So often politicians seem to have to spend a lot of time just getting money to campaign with, and use information supplied by lobbyists, rather than being people who really know the issues and who have strong principles.

Socrates said that the best man for the job of leading a country is the one who doesn't want the job. I'm inclined to agree. The people who would work to improve conditions for those in the worst situations don't want the job. The people who care most about the environment don't want the job. Politicians most often seek the position for the personal power it conveys, not for the power it gives them to make things better in the world. It's a sad commentary on human nature.

There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance. -Socrates
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#6 of 10

     Posted 5/15/05 9:19 PM   
Sue_N
 
From  Sue_N  Posts 3452  Last 12:11 AM
To  scoff0165      [Msg # 196359.6 Message 196359.6 replying to 196359.5 196359.5 ]    

Perhaps we need leaders who are not career politicians, and we need to persuade politicians to co-operate with non-profit non-government organizations which really care about the environment, or poverty, etc. Perhaps we are investing too much power in hierarchical government. Of course, the NGOs are not democratically elected. I'm not sure how it would work, but maybe if we made it clear that we wanted politicians to outsource certain responsibilities to experts who were not in it for profit, things might work better. What do you think?

[Views expressed are those of the author, and do not necessarily reflect those of CompuServe, the Forum or any government, agency or news organization.]

 

Sue [sysop in NewsForum, World Issues, All Animals forums]
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#7 of 10

     Posted 5/15/05 9:44 PM   
scoff0165
 
From  scoff0165  Posts 193  Last 6/30/06
To  Sue_N      [Msg # 196359.7 Message 196359.7 replying to 196359.6 196359.6 ]    

Perhaps we need leaders who are not career politicians, and we need to persuade politicians to co-operate with non-profit non-government organizations which really care about the environment, or poverty, etc. Perhaps we are investing too much power in hierarchical government. Of course, the NGOs are not democratically elected. I'm not sure how it would work, but maybe if we made it clear that we wanted politicians to outsource certain responsibilities to experts who were not in it for profit, things might work better. What do you think?

It will take a lot to force politicians to give up their power. Even more to rein in the corporations that seemingly more and more control the politicians. NGO's will be only as good as their leadership. As they acquired more control, I fear their leadership would succumb to the temptations of power as well.

Maybe a lottery system would work to solve the problem of corruption. Each citizen would have an equal chance, and all would be required to train for the job before taking it. Have them work with the poor to give our leaders an understanding of the desperation the poor feel. Have them work at environmental clean-up sites to let our leaders see the extent of the devastation poor environmental policy causes. It's going to be a long haul to reach the point where human nature can be overcome or modified enough to allow true "enlightened self-interest" to guide our progress into the future.

There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance. -Socrates
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#8 of 10

     Posted 5/26/05 11:36 PM   
Sue_N
 
From  Sue_N  Posts 3452  Last 12:11 AM
To  scoff0165      [Msg # 196359.8 Message 196359.8 replying to 196359.7 196359.7 ]    

"Maybe a lottery system would work to solve the problem of corruption. Each citizen would have an equal chance, and all would be required to train for the job before taking it. Have them work with the poor to give our leaders an understanding of the desperation the poor feel. Have them work at environmental clean-up sites to let our leaders see the extent of the devastation poor environmental policy causes. It's going to be a long haul to reach the point where human nature can be overcome or modified enough to allow true "enlightened self-interest" to guide our progress into the future."

Didn't Ancient Greece have a lottery system for voting?

How about inheriting wealth? Do you think that is detrimental to being a good citizen?

I think that we need accounting systems for our corporations that take into account the full cost of their products from cradle to grave of the project; from extraction of raw products to disposal of finished ones and every aspect in between.

[Views expressed are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect those of CompuServe, Netscape, any government, agency, or news organization.]

 

Sue [sysop in NewsForum, World Issues, All Animals forums]
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#9 of 10

     Posted 5/27/05 12:33 AM   
scoff0165
 
From  scoff0165  Posts 193  Last 6/30/06
To  Sue_N      [Msg # 196359.9 Message 196359.9 replying to 196359.8 196359.8 ]    

Didn't Ancient Greece have a lottery system for voting?

I believe you're right, although I can't say for certain. It just strikes me as a sensible step to take in light of all the electoral woes we've experienced here recently.

How about inheriting wealth? Do you think that is detrimental to being a good citizen?

That's not a question for which I have a ready answer. Offhand, I'd say some limitations need to be placed on the amount of wealth that is passed along. Recognizing that wealth as the result of far more than just the efforts of the person passing it on, I can't help but feel that it would serve society as a whole much better to place some restraints on how much wealth a person has a right to inherit.

I think that we need accounting systems for our corporations that take into account the full cost of their products from cradle to grave of the project; from extraction of raw products to disposal of finished ones and every aspect in between.

I agree. We need to know the long-term effects of their actions, especially at the extraction and disposal ends of the production cycle. Clear-cut logging and mountaintop removal are a couple of the more egregious examples of disastrous actions taken by corporations to access raw materials. The results, as are now becoming evident, are affecting many people over a large area.

The recent debate over the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste disposal site in Nevada exemplifies the lack of foresight that has been used up to this point in our history. It is understandable that some consequences should go unrecognized prior to undertaking production, but a system such as you suggest would allow more people to be involved in the entire decision-making process, start to finish. That could only be to our benefit. As is, with all these decisions based wholly (or nearly so) on economic factors, the cost in human terms is under-represented and, often, ignored completely.

There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance. - Socrates
 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#10 of 10

     Posted 5/27/05 1:15 AM   
susiej
 
From  susiej  Posts 6370  Last 7/5/10
To  Sue_N      [Msg # 196359.10 Message 196359.10 replying to 196359.1 196359.1 ]    

<<<A judge has ruled to block a plan allowing for construction of thousands of homes north of Lake Tahoe.>>>

 It happens in Florida all too often. We have "wetlands" that can't be built on until  the  Environmental Resource Permitting Program addresses dredging, filling, and construction in the wetlands and other surface water, as well as stormwater and surface water management systems in uplands.  The program is designed to ensure that activities in uplands, wetlands and other surface waters do not degrade water quality or degrade habitat for aquatic or wetland dependent wildlife.

 AND, if you're having a home built on a wetland, the cost to prepare it for construction can be astronomical. My son and D-I-L had to turn down a piece of property because it would have cost them $30,000 to prepare this site according to these laws.

  Regards, Sue, S.W. Fl.

Let those who hear the beat of a different drum, step to the music they hear.

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply
 Subscribe SubscribeGet a printer-friendly version of this discussion Print Discussion 
Sci / Health / Environment

Enviro. May 14 '05 Sustainable Dev't.

  
 
: 
     

Welcome, Sue_N

  • Post a message
  • 1 private message to you
  • New messages to you
  • Log out

Start Search
Advanced Search

Prospero Blocks
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
© 2014 CompuServe Interactive Services, Inc. All rights reserved.

Legal Notices | Privacy Policy